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During the airing of “Face the Nation,” which was hosted by Robert Costa:

• Republican Senator Lindsey Graham from the state of South Carolina.

• :

  Republican Senator Tim Scott from South Carolina:

• Rikki Klieman, legal analyst for CBS News

• Democratic Rep. Jim Clyburn of South Carolina
• have a new book, ”
  Douglas Brinkley and Amie Parnes, a historian and a journalist-turned-author respectively, have recently published a new book titled “

Click here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation.”    

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My name is Robert Costa and I am currently in Washington, D.C.

This week on the show Face the Nation: Ex-President Donald Trump experiences another defeat in court. As the South Carolina Republican primary draws closer, Nikki Haley is battling to remain in the competition.

(Begin VT)

Donald Trump, the former President of the United States and current U.S. Presidential candidate (R), referred to a judge as being dishonest and corrupt multiple times.

(End VT)

ROBERT COSTA: Previous President Trump expresses anger over his recent legal troubles, as a judge in New York mandates him to pay almost $355 million in a civil fraud lawsuit.

(Begin VT)

Former President Donald Trump stated that the case against him is a fraud, as it lacks any evidence of victims, defaults, damages, complaints, or any other form of wrongdoing.

(End VT)

ROBERT COSTA: As the next GOP contest approaches, his only rival is searching for an opportunity.

(Begin VT)

Nikki Haley, a Republican presidential candidate, stated that spending most of the year in a courtroom instead of on the campaign trail is not a winning strategy.

(End VT)

The topic of foreign aid has become a point of contention on the campaign trail, according to ROBERT COSTA.

(Begin VT)

According to NIKKI HALEY, Congress is debating whether to support Ukraine and Israel or the border, but this is based on a false assumption. It is possible to support both.

(End VT)

ROBERT COSTA: Tim Scott and Lindsey Graham, both Republican senators from South Carolina, will share their insights on their recent visit to the U.S.-Mexico border and discuss the implications of Putin critic Alexei Navalny’s death on efforts to assist Ukraine.

Now: The role of South Carolina Democrat Jim Clyburn was crucial in securing Joe Biden’s victory in the 2020 primary. We will find out if he has any reservations about President Biden’s chances for reelection.

As we celebrate President’s Day, let’s have a conversation about leadership, character, and the values that define America.

Coming up next on Face the Nation.

Hello and welcome to Face the Nation. Margaret is not here today.

During a two-week break, Congress is being urged by certain legislators to increase funding for Ukraine due to the recent takeover of another major Ukrainian city by Russian forces. At the Munich security conference, President Zelenskyy appealed for additional assistance from the U.S. and other international allies.

(Begin VT)

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy stated that instead of asking when the war in Ukraine will end, we should be questioning why Putin is able to prolong it.

(End VT)

ROBERT COSTA: However, the future course of action for additional U.S. assistance is unclear.

The Senate recently approved a foreign aid bill worth $95 billion, which allocated funds for countries such as Ukraine and Israel. However, it is unlikely that the Republican-led House will consider this bill.

We are joined by Republican Senator Lindsey Graham from Clemson, South Carolina, who previously opposed the bipartisan bill in the Senate.

Senator, good morning.

Do you anticipate at this stage…

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) greets everyone and wishes them a good morning.

Is Congress offering any fresh aid to Ukraine, according to Robert Costa?

I am in agreement.

After spending the weekend on the phone discussing with my House colleagues, I am feeling hopeful that there is a solution for the issues surrounding the border and Ukraine.

I apologize, Josh, I cannot recall your last name, but the individuals involved in solving this problem are Congressman Fitzpatrick and Gott of Gottsenheim.

ROBERT COSTA: Josh Gottheimer, the representative from New Jersey.

Senator Lindsey Graham confirmed his agreement twice.

Their idea is quite innovative. This is what they propose: let’s revert to the “Remain in Mexico” policy for border security. This was the primary demand of the Border Patrol during our trip to Texas with Senator Scott. This means that individuals seeking asylum must wait in Mexico while their claim is processed, instead of being allowed into the United States. Additionally, they suggest reinstating Title 42.

I believe the two objects along the boundary are uncomplicated and effective. They aim to reduce the assistance package to $60 billion, solely consisting of lethal aid. This is the approach I recommended to them. It seems to be the most successful approach. I proposed converting the lethal aid into a loan, similar to President Trump’s suggestion.

The European nations granted Ukraine a total of $50 billion, with $33 billion being provided as a loan. In my opinion, if the lethal aid is converted into a loan and measures such as Remain in Mexico and Title 42 are implemented, not only will it pass through the House, but it will also gain support in the Senate. This would greatly benefit Ukraine and deal a setback to Putin, while also providing assistance to Israel and Taiwan.

ROBERT COSTA: Senator Graham, let’s stop there for a moment. You stunned many of your colleagues and U.S. allies around the world when you opposed this recent…

Senator Lindsey Graham confirmed that he did indeed do something.

ROBERT COSTA: You opposed this bipartisan legislation.

It appears that you are now ready to back this new House bill, which has gained support from moderate members of both the Republican and Democratic parties.

Senator Lindsey Graham confirmed his agreement.

Can you confirm that you support the $66 billion plan for Israel, Ukraine, and border security, and will vote in favor of the Fitzpatrick House proposal?

Senator Lindsey Graham stated that he agrees with the House proposal, as long as it is written in a sensible manner.

I believe there are six to eight Republicans who are willing to assist Ukraine, but felt that the bipartisan border bill was inadequate. Why did I vote against it? I want to prioritize securing our own border. However, I also want to support Ukraine, Taiwan, and Israel. The border provisions in the bill were not satisfactory.

ROBERT COSTA: Understood.

Senator Lindsey Graham expressed his dedication to the task and highlighted several positive aspects.

Therefore, continue to stay in Mexico…

ROBERT COSTA: Right.

Senator Lindsey Graham believes that including [the game changer] in the package would be the most significant factor. He suggests reducing the package to only include lethal aid, but he would be in favor of providing humanitarian aid in smaller amounts if it were in the form of a loan.

The Europeans have once again converted 33 of their $50 billion transfer to Ukraine into a loan. We should also make it a loan, which I believe will satisfy President Trump regarding the aid. Moving on to the topic of Remain in Mexico, we have a solution that will be effective.

Regarding the events in Russia involving Navalny, I must say that Navalny was one of the most courageous individuals I have ever encountered. Despite knowing the risks, he returned to Russia and ultimately fell victim to Putin’s regime.

Can we consider this plan? I recently spoke with two Democratic senators. We should designate Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism according to U.S. law. This would hold them accountable for the death of Navalny. It would also give the Navalny family the opportunity to seek justice in a U.S. court and sue Putin’s Russia for their loved one’s murder.

Being labeled as a state sponsor of terrorism would have significant consequences, such as increasing the ability to impose sanctions and granting access to the American legal system. I have been advocating for this for a year.

Robert Costa: Can we anticipate the passing of a law for that matter within this week?

Senator Lindsey Graham confirmed that he agrees with the statement.

President Biden warned Putin that there would be consequences if something were to happen to Navalny. I fully support President Biden’s stance and believe that Russia should be labeled as a state sponsor of terrorism, alongside countries like Iran, Cuba, and North Korea. This designation is well-deserved, considering Putin’s history of targeting and killing opposition leaders and involvement in the dismemberment of Syria.

He is considered to be one of the most terrible actors in the world.

Senator Graham, as stated by Robert Costa…

Senator Lindsey Graham has been accused of being a war criminal.

Yes.

ROBERT COSTA: I want to come back to what you said about this news you just made that you’re now supporting House legislation on Ukraine funding, after opposing the Senate legislation. You said you…

Senator Lindsey Graham answered affirmatively.

(CROSSTALK)

Robert Costa believes it may be possible for former President Trump to agree to certain elements. However, this is a major assumption.

(LAUGHTER)

Senator Lindsey Graham responded affirmatively.

Can you confirm if you have discussed your endorsement of the House bill with ex-President Trump? Are you certain that you can persuade him to not oppose the efforts of Brian Fitzpatrick, the House representative from Pennsylvania?

Senator Lindsey Graham responded with a positive response to the inquiry.

I have not discussed this package with President Trump. Earlier this week, I talked to him about converting the aid to Ukraine into a loan. This was his suggestion, not mine. As you know, we provided lend-lease assistance to Britain, but our national debt is currently $34 trillion. Additionally, Ukraine has valuable minerals and abundant resources.

Israel has a resilient economy, but it suffered significant damage on October 7. Taiwan is a prosperous country. Instead, why don’t we offer a beneficial loan to all three of these allies and allow them to repay us when they are able, if they are able? This proposal comes from Trump, as our nation currently has a $34 trillion debt.

I believe if you accept this, you will receive a significant number of votes from both the House and the Senate. The President has suggested delaying action on the border, but I must disagree. Waiting is not an option. This poses a serious threat to national security, with a 2000 percent rise in individuals on the terrorist watch list crossing the border in just two years.

The influx of fentanyl entering our southern border could result in the deaths of five billion individuals. The leading cause of death among young Americans is fentanyl overdose from the southern border. Therefore, I believe immediate action is necessary at the border. I propose converting the aid package into a loan, which seems like a logical solution to me.

I believe the bipartisan group, Problem Solvers, has a proposal that will be well-received.

ROBERT COSTA: Sure.

Senator Lindsey Graham stated that if someone was in the position of Putin, he wants them to understand that the United States will not abandon Ukraine. Instead, they will take action and designate their country as a state sponsor of terrorism. There will be consequences for the killing of a courageous individual.

According to Robert Costa, Putin is observing the developments in Congress and must be questioning the current stance of the Republican Party.

Senator Lindsey Graham confirmed.

ROBERT COSTA: Former President Trump has been invited by President Zelenskyy…

Senator Lindsey Graham confirmed his agreement.

Robert Costa stated that they were on their way to the front lines.

Senator Lindsey Graham answered affirmatively.

Should he take that action?

Senator Graham, do you have any objections to the way former President Trump has discussed NATO allies and his belief that if they fail to make payments to NATO, Russia can act as it pleases? Is this acceptable, particularly in regards to U.S. foreign relations?

Senator Lindsey Graham believes that it is necessary for everyone to fulfill their 2 percent obligation.

In 1984, Sam Nunn warned that if NATO did not reach the 3 percent goal, he would pull out 30,000 troops annually. In my opinion, NATO countries should fulfill their financial obligations as only 19 out of 31 nations currently contribute 2 percent of their GDP. I believe there should be consequences for not meeting payment requirements, such as being removed from the alliance.

I am not asking Russia to invade Ukraine. President Trump is correct in expecting NATO countries to fulfill their commitment of 2 percent. We must make this commitment meaningful.

ROBERT COSTA: Should…

Senator Lindsey Graham supports NATO, but believes that there is still $70 to $80 billion remaining to be paid. He urges all NATO members to fulfill their commitment to contribute 2 percent of their GDP.

Senator Graham, I have one final thing to ask you about.

Will Special Counsel Hur be appearing before the House Judiciary Committee soon? Are you a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee? Do you intend to request his testimony before your committee?

Senator Lindsey Graham stated that he will defer to Senator Durbin and has some thoughts on the matter.

I simply want to bring it to a close. Firstly, thank you for inviting me to be on the show.

I am optimistic about the future of Ukraine, Taiwan, and Israel. I have a plan to easily secure our border. We could designate Russia as a state that supports terrorism. These changes could take place within the next month and have a significant impact on the world. We will have to wait and see how things unfold.

ROBERT COSTA: The negotiations appeared to have failed, but now they appear to be back on track.

Thank you, Senator Lindsey Graham from South Carolina.

Senator Lindsey Graham expresses his gratitude.

This morning, we shift our focus to Senator Tim Scott, the other Republican senator from South Carolina. He is joining us today from his residence in the state.

Dear Senator, thank you for your presence.

Senator Tim Scott from South Carolina, a Republican, addressing Bob.

According to Robert Costa, ex-President Donald Trump has been heavily involved in legal proceedings lately.

Is Nikki Haley correct in pointing out that having a candidate who is currently in a courtroom may be a burden for Republicans across the country?

Senator Tim Scott clarified that she does not possess the mentioned quality.

Without a doubt, this situation has brought to light the existence of a two-tiered justice system that is feared by many Americans. It is apparent that there is a bias towards Republicans while Democrats are shielded by the justice system.

Bob, a highly convincing proof of this fact is the report by special counsel Hur, which stated that Joe Biden undeniably mishandled classified and sensitive material. Additionally, courts are specifically targeting and pursuing Republicans, including not just the former president, but also pro-life activists and individuals attending school board meetings, who are being labeled as domestic terrorists by the Department of Justice.

There is a system of justice with two levels that is currently being revealed.

Robert Costa: You mentioned the Justice Department being weaponized, but that is an unsubstantiated assertion. There is no evidence to suggest that it is being used as a weapon. Intent must be established…

Senator Tim Scott expressed, “Well…”

Robert Costa: … when it comes to making such an assertion.

Senator Tim Scott: This is what we observe.

The report from special counsel Hur is unambiguous in stating that the age and faulty memory of the US president make him a sympathetic figure to a jury, leading to the decision not to pursue charges.

Robert Costa: Alright, let’s proceed…

Senator Tim Scott: However, the findings are evident…

ROBERT COSTA: Senator…

Senator Tim Scott stated that there are allegations that the individual in question mishandled classified information. The report regarding this matter is currently under review.

ROBERT COSTA: No fee was incurred.

Senator Tim Scott stated that it was very clear, Bob, and they could both come to an agreement on that.

ROBERT COSTA: The descriptions have been heavily debated, and no accusation was included in the report.

Do you think the Republican National Committee (RNC) should cover the increasing legal costs for former President Trump, Senator Scott?

Senator Tim Scott stated that the American people are highly concerned about the effects of the two-tiered justice system that he recently mentioned.

Their concerns are quite apparent. The citizens of America are placing greater emphasis on their own prospects rather than dwelling on Donald Trump’s history. Their main priority is ensuring the security of the southern border. With nearly 10 million unauthorized crossings expected by the time of the election, this issue is of utmost importance.

The citizens of America are not inquiring about legal obstacles. They are inquiring about financial obstacles. They are not discussing legal difficulties. Instead, they are discussing their personal struggles at the dinner table.

Robert Costa stated that the person being addressed was recently in Eagle Pass with Senator Graham on Friday.

Senator Tim Scott affirmed, “Yes, sir.”

Robert Costa discussed the topic of border security.

You have been identified as a potential candidate for vice president under former President Donald Trump. If you were to become vice president, either now or in the future, an important consideration is your perspective on the role of vice president during congressional certification.

Senator, in your opinion, what is the responsibility of the vice president on the day of certifying Congress?

Senator Tim Scott declined to answer hypothetical questions about the past.

One thing that is certain about the future is that the previous president will thankfully be successful in 2024. He will not have to confront that situation again.

So, I think…

ROBERT COSTA: My inquiry is not a hypothetical one, but rather a constitutional one.

What is your perspective on the responsibilities of the vice president regarding the certification process in Congress?

Senator Tim Scott: The Constitution is unambiguous.

ROBERT COSTA: Do you still support your decision?

Senator Tim Scott stated that he is in agreement with the issue at hand.

I am certain that we will not be asking and receiving answers about the past. My stance remains unchanged.

Can we shift our focus to the topic of politics?

Senator Tim Scott: Of course.

ROBERT COSTA: Nikki Haley has been a staunch supporter in the past, but her loyalty seems to have waned.

Nalin, the adult son of the woman, has called you Judas…

Senator Tim Scott stated in agreement.

ROBERT COSTA: … for publicly supporting former President Donald Trump. How do you react to Nalin Haley and Nikki Haley, who have not fully rejected that statement, although Nikki has occasionally silenced her son?

Senator Tim Scott: Allow me to clarify my stance.

Political situations can cause individuals and their loved ones to experience feelings of desperation. It is regrettable that a person of high character must resort to labeling themselves or others as Judas Iscariot or engaging in name-calling.

However, this is not about me. It is about the American people. Therefore, I hope that they redirect their attention to the main issues. But in the meantime…

Robert Costa asked the senator if former President Trump should…

Senator Tim Scott: I will make a conscious effort to be more forgiving in my actions and decisions.

ROBERT COSTA: On the topic of name-calling, should former President Trump refrain from calling Ambassador Haley a birdbrain and instead focus on the issues at hand?

Senator Tim Scott stated that he believes the son of the person in question should refrain from referring to him as Judas Iscariot. There are numerous topics that can be discussed.

However, it is crucial for us, as elected representatives, to prioritize the concerns of the American people. This is one of the key factors that has contributed to President Trump’s strong lead in the polls and his success in winning over more female voters in New Hampshire than Nikki Haley. His emphasis on upholding law and order, securing our southern border, and ensuring safety in our communities, as well as improving the economy, has resonated with voters.

We should prioritize these concerns instead of getting caught up in the current difficulties of our time. The seemingly insignificant remarks, although they may seem unimportant in the long run, can cause harm in the short term.

Senator Tim Scott from South Carolina, thank you for taking the time to speak with us.

The program Face the Nation will resume in 60 seconds. Please continue watching.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

ROBERT COSTA: To provide insights on the recent fraud ruling against the Trump Organization and what legal challenges lie ahead for the former president, we welcome CBS News legal analyst Rikki Klieman. She is currently in Southampton, New York.

Good morning, Rikki.

It is anticipated that ex-President Trump will challenge the decision made in the civil fraud lawsuit. What do you predict will happen in this matter, and how will he be required to compensate?

RIKKI KLIEMAN: Well, let’s look at if he has a good appeal. And I think that many legal experts would agree that he does, and for two reasons.

This is the primary law in New York that was created to combat consumer fraud, specifically targeting those who lack knowledge in the marketplace and are vulnerable to being scammed.

The lawyers of the president have continuously claimed that there was no harm done and that the banks were fully reimbursed. The payments were always made on time and the banks were content to work with them. The banks were able to thoroughly investigate and were pleased with the outcome, ultimately leaving them satisfied.

The law has been contested since its inception. The appellate court may consider reviewing it, as it could potentially harm a specific industry or company. Additionally, Donald Trump and his legal team will likely seek to decrease the penalty amount.

The fine is extremely high. When considering the process for appealing, you must pay the penalty amount plus interest within 30 days, which amounts to 120% of the original penalty. This could potentially be around $450 million.

If you are unable to pay in cash, you will need to identify assets that can serve as collateral for a surety company. This is a challenging responsibility for financial advisors working with Donald Trump and his organization in obtaining funds or a bond for the appeal.

If the filing cannot be processed due to lack of funds, the payment will need to be made.

ROBERT COSTA: New York presents numerous obstacles for former President Trump.

In March, the hush money payments criminal trial will begin in Manhattan for a duration of six weeks, starting on March 25th. What are your predictions for the outcome of the trial during the months of March, April, and May?

What is important to keep in mind is that this is the initial trial against a former president. This gives it a significant and crucial place in history.

The presiding judge, Judge Merchan, is known for being strict and will not tolerate any misbehavior. The case will proceed quickly and efficiently. Some may have preferred for the January 6 case or the Mar-a-Lago documents case to be prioritized on a national scale.

However, this is still considered a criminal matter involving multiple instances of altering business documents in order to carry out or conceal illegal activity. According to the District Attorney, this illegal activity pertained to tax laws, as well as federal and state election laws.

There is no indication in this situation that it is considered insignificant or should not be pursued. It will be pursued. If there is a conviction, the maximum sentence is four years in prison.

Can someone become a president and fulfill their duties if they are found guilty of a crime within our legal system?

RIKKI KLIEMAN: Not only can you run and serve. You will find, as you well know, that here, in the life of Donald Trump, the political and the legal collide.

Donald Trump will likely use this fraud case to claim that certain individuals, such as the attorney general of New York, have gone beyond their power. He will then focus on the New York case and argue that the district attorney acted outside of their authority by pursuing these types of cases.

Therefore, it aligns with the current political climate during a crucial moment on the political schedule.

Can you expect Fani Willis to be removed from the Georgia election interference case after her testimony in Fulton County, Georgia?

Unfortunately, it was quite scandalous to watch on television as we saw the courtroom proceedings and learned about the romantic involvement between district attorney Fani Willis and the special prosecutor she had hired, who happened to be her partner for a while.

The salaciousness of this and the fact that she decided to testify when she was angry leads us to a point that it has probably hurt her credibility. The case will not be dismissed. I doubt that she will be disqualified.

In the end, while she may be successful in the motion, it could be argued that the case ultimately becomes a political loss.

ROBERT COSTA: That’s where we’ll wrap up.

Thank you very much, Rikki Klieman.

We will return shortly with additional coverage of Face the Nation. Please continue to tune in.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

ROBERT COSTA: In case you are unable to watch an interview or episode of Face the Nation, visit our website or check out our YouTube page by searching for Face the Nation.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

ROBERT COSTA: Coming up, we will have a discussion with Democratic Representative Jim Clyburn and a group of experts on the legacies of past presidents.

Stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

ROBERT COSTA: Thank you for tuning in to FACE THE NATION once again.

We are currently heading to Congressman Jim Clyburn, who is located in Santee, South Carolina.

Good morning, Congressman. Thank you for being present. Your presence is greatly appreciated.

Congressman Jim Clyburn, representing South Carolina, expresses gratitude for the invitation to speak.

Rep. Bob Costa: As someone who has been close to President Biden for a long time, what worries you the most about his re-election campaign? What are your biggest political concerns that keep you up at night?

JIM CLYBURN: Well, the thing that keeps me wide awake are the misinformation efforts that are underway throughout this campaign. I’ve heard so much from people sharing with me things that just aren’t true. So much from people who seem to feel that everything they see or hear via the internet has some substance to them. And so that’s the thing that keeps me up, whether or not we’re going to have a campaign for the presidency free of all of these interruptions and all of the misinformation.

Can you clarify what you are referring to, Robert Costa?

JIM CLYBURN: We are aware of the situation in New Hampshire where AI technology was used to imitate Joe Biden’s voice and spread false information. We have also observed similar tactics being used in the South Carolina Republican primary, such as inviting Democrats to participate and spreading misinformation through media outlets.

ROBERT COSTA: So, you’re worried about how information is received by voters, how they understand this campaign, but what about turnout? You’ve seen how the Biden administration’s support for Israel and its war with Hamas has sparked some protests at events across the country.

Do you have worries that the Biden administration’s stance on that matter could result in a low Democratic turnout among certain young voters and other demographics?

JIM CLYBURN: Well, I’m concerned about the issue like everybody else is. I’m concerned about what’s going on in Russia. And I think that all of that is part and parcel of the same thing. And of course we’re hearing from a lot of people who are concerned about what is happening currently with the leadership in Russia, with what’s going on with the Ukraine war, what’s going on in Israel with the Gaza Strip. All of these are big concerns that all of us have.

When you have these worries, you are seeking individuals who can guide us through these matters. And there is no one better suited for that than Joe Biden. He possesses the necessary experience, wisdom, demeanor, and relationships to steer our country in the right direction and maintain strong alliances with our international partners. You will not find these qualities on the opposing side.

ROBERT COSTA: Your suggestion was for him to maintain a consistent relationship with our American allies.

Should he maintain his stance on Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu or reconsider their relationship?

I am unsure of the exact nature of the relationship between Netanyahu and the president. I have discussed this with the president, but he may not publicly disclose all of his conversations with Netanyahu.

However, I am aware that he shares my negative sentiments towards Netanyahu’s leadership, which I believe has been detrimental for Israel. We remain in strong support of the Israeli people, but I have long held reservations about Netanyahu, and that remains true today.

Robert Costa: You have expressed concerns about Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, and have discussed this privately with the President.

Is he experiencing difficulties with Netanyahu?

I have expressed my thoughts on Netanyahu to the president. He will form his own opinion on the matter. He has not disclosed his specific thoughts to me.

Can you clarify if the Congressman shares or opposes your evaluation, Mr. Costa?

JIM CLYBURN: He has acknowledged my evaluation. I did not inquire about his agreement with me. Instead, I simply expressed my thoughts to him. I am not in charge of the country. You should do what you believe is in its best interest.

Robert Costa: In 2020, you advised candidate Biden to select a black woman for the Supreme Court. This influenced your decision to endorse him and gained support from numerous black voters.

What steps does President Biden need to take in order to ensure that black voters turn out in the same numbers as they did for him in the 2020 election? Is there a specific action he needs to take and should he make a new commitment? If so, what should it be?

JIM CLYBURN: He should maintain his current management style for the country. He made a promise, which was especially relevant given the country’s history. Despite there being five women on the Supreme Court, there had never been an African American woman seriously considered. Therefore, I believed it was necessary in that situation.

I suggest to him to continue his current actions.

Robert Costa: Representative, you are seeking another term in office but stepping down from your position in the Democratic leadership. You are 83 years old, while President Biden is 81.

What is the best way for him to address the age-related issue in the upcoming months?

Jim Clyburn advises to highlight one’s experience and wisdom, and to stay connected with people. He mentions his upcoming trips to New York, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Georgia, where he will be promoting the message of the president: experience, a steady hand, and the pursuit of a more perfect union. He also mentions the importance of maintaining relationships globally and working towards progress for all.

I have a strong belief that this country is already great and does not require any further efforts to make it great. Our goal should be to find solutions that make the greatness of this country available and affordable for all our people. Joe Biden is actively working towards this goal, and we must remain committed to it.

Representative Jim Clyburn, thank you for your time. We are grateful.

We will return shortly.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

ROBERT COSTA: For some historical context on this Presidents’ Day weekend, we’re joined now by Douglas Brinkley. He’s a presidential historian and the author of many books, including “The Unfinished Presidency.” And we’re joined by Amie Parnes, a national political reporter. Her latest book co- authored with John Allen, “Lucky,” chronicles President Biden’s 2020 campaign.

It is wonderful to have the both of you here. I enjoy reflecting on the role of the presidency during Presidents’ Day weekend.

Doug, let’s start with you.

You are close with former President Jimmy Carter. You’ve written a wonderful book about his unfinished presidency after he left the White House. He’s now down in Plains, and it’s a year ago today former President Carter entered hospice care and a year later he is still with us.

Share your knowledge on the Carter family, including updates on how they are faring during a challenging year, and your thoughts on the significance of his presidency.

Historian Douglas Brinkley notes that former President Jimmy Carter, who is currently 99 years old, is facing challenges due to his age. However, Carter remains determined and cognizant, showing the ability to comprehend his surroundings and maintain his appetite. Brinkley expresses his wish for Carter to reach the age of 100 and be able to celebrate on October 1, 2024.

He has successfully defeated cancer in the past, but he is now dedicated to eliminating guinea worm disease which was once widespread in more than 20 African countries. He is aware that they are nearing the end of eradicating this terrible disease, and he has played a key role in this effort. He remains mindful of this cause.

He is increasingly regarded as a highly successful historical figure, due to his accomplishments such as the Camp David Peace Accord between Egypt and Israel and his actions on the environmental front, which included setting aside land in Alaska equivalent to the size of California. His legacy is likely to continue growing, particularly in regards to climate change, as he was a strong advocate for human rights and was the first to officially recognize the People’s Republic of China. Additionally, he was responsible for important treaties such as the Panama Canal Treaty. He also established organizations such as FEMA and the Department of Energy, and addressed issues related to environmental cleanup through the creation of super fund sites.

Looking at this on paper, it’s clear that this is an exceptional one-term president who, by the way, is exiting with worldwide admiration, a Nobel Peace Prize, and his integrity unscathed.

ROBERT COSTA: And, Amie, as Faulkner said, the past is really never past. You think about President Joe Biden, who you’ve covered so closely. He endorsed Jimmy Carter in 1976 when Carter ran for president.

I agree with AMIE PARNES, co-author of “Lucky: How Joe Biden Barely Won the Presidency,” that this is true.

ROBERT COSTA: He has traveled to Plains to meet with the former president and the now-deceased first lady, Rosalynn Carter.

Carter often felt that he was not understood by the government in Washington. Despite being an experienced insider in Washington, Biden and his team still give off a sense of being misunderstood.

AMIE PARNES: Absolutely. When Doug mentioned the idea of only serving one term, it definitely struck a chord with many in Biden’s inner circle and the Democratic party. There is a fear that he may follow in Carter’s footsteps and become a one-term president. This fear is currently fueling the campaign and driving the White House to prevent that from happening. We can see this effort in action.

There is a concern when you have conversations with people who are open and honest with you about what’s truly happening. They are aware of the current state of things in the polls. Even Biden himself is becoming increasingly frustrated with the situation. They are analyzing the polls and trying to figure out how to improve their communication and strategy. It is clear that they acknowledge their shortcomings when being open with you.

ROBERT COSTA: The Biden campaign includes not just President Joe Biden, but also Vice President Kamala Harris.

What will be her responsibilities in the upcoming year as this campaign intensifies?

Douglas Brinkley believes that the Biden-Harris ticket is likely to come out as the winners. Despite some speculation about Biden potentially dropping out, Brinkley does not believe it will happen until June. He predicts that Biden will secure the majority of delegates and become the Democratic Party’s nominee, alongside Kamala Harris as his running mate.

If Biden were to withdraw from the race, with his poll numbers at 22 percent, it is likely that Kamala Harris would become the alternative candidate. However, there is a possibility that a surprise could occur at the convention, such as a ticket with Michelle Obama and Admiral McRaven.

ROBERT COSTA: Well, that –

Douglas Brinkley believes that is an unrealistic or impractical idea.

Robert Costa described it as an unrealistic or impractical idea.

However, I have observed that Jill Biden, the wife of the president, has been actively supporting and encouraging people to rally behind her husband.

Do you think she is an essential component of the campaign?

Douglas Brinkley: Dr. Jill Biden is the crucial component. She is the one.

In 1952, there was a possibility for Harry Truman to run for office, but he chose not to. This decision was influenced by the ongoing Korean War and other factors. Additionally, his wife Bess longed for a return to a more independent life outside of Washington.

In early 1968, Lyndon Johnson resigned from office, with some attributing his decision to the influence of news anchor Walter Cronkite. However, the main factor was actually Johnson’s poor health, including a weak heart and health issues like smoking, high blood pressure, and stress. Additionally, Lady Bird Johnson did not wish to remain in Washington and convinced her husband to step down and return to Texas.

In the case of Truman, I am presenting you with two options. Both Truman and Johnson declined to continue because their spouses had expressed that they had had enough.

Jill Biden is different from that. She enjoys having authority and desires to remain in her position. She also seeks some form of retribution. She works as a teacher at Virginia Community College. This place is like her second home. The thought of giving it all up after enduring criticism and attacks for years, and then suddenly opening it up to others when she has finally gained enough support, seems immature when you come across such reports.

I have not seen any reports indicating that this will occur.

AMIE PARNES: He firmly believes that he is the most capable candidate to defeat Trump. He has expressed this publicly and privately to former President Obama and others. He has had this belief for a long time, dating back to 2016 when he even had some disagreement with Hillary Clinton over who could have beaten Trump. He sees the current political situation as a result of not running in the last election.

His current issue is that he will need to address the numerous polls showing a lack of trust in him. In 2020, he was expected to be the unifying figure who would bring people together and represent the soul of the nation. However, many people still don’t feel optimistic when they see their bank accounts and believe that the country has become more divided. It is possible that he will suffer consequences for this.

According to my sources who are close to President Biden, he is feeling a lot of frustration behind the scenes. Despite people experiencing inflationary issues, he remains confident in the economy and often refers to economic data, including the stock market, as evidence of improvement. However, he is constantly annoyed by the media’s focus on his age.

What is the underlying manifestation of that frustration?

AMIE PARNES: According to my sources, he is experiencing a lot of frustration. The reports about this are accurate. He is constantly pointing out that they have achieved a lot and wondering why it is not getting more attention. This highlights the need for a communication plan to address the issue. They will need to find a solution to this problem promptly.

Douglas, you have extensively covered the topic of former President Ronald Reagan. As we listen to Senator Lindsey Graham, we can sense the current tension within the GOP surrounding foreign policy.

Has this become the party of Reagan anymore? Is Trump’s imprint now dominant, particularly regarding topics such as Putin, Russia, international relations, and Ukraine?

According to Douglas Brinkley, Trump’s foreign policy marks the end of the Reagan era. Reagan’s presidency shares more similarities with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama’s administrations. Reagan held a strong disdain for Russia and the Soviet Union, viewing them as totalitarian regimes. He consistently spoke out against them, even during his time as a governor in the 1960s, expressing his belief that democracy would ultimately triumph.

He famously delivered a speech at Normandy, known as the Pointe du Hoc speech, along with Peggy Noonan and others. In the speech, he declared that the first half of Europe in World War II had been liberated, and now it was time to liberate the second half. The Soviet Union’s disintegration occurred during Bush 41’s presidency in 1991. This was the kind of event that Ronald Reagan admired. Reagan, along with his former secretary of state George Shultz, would be disappointed to see Russia’s attempt to militarize space with new satellites and nuclear weapons. They had hoped to reduce the number of nuclear weapons in the world, not increase them.

ROBERT COSTA: Foreign policy also an issue for President Biden. I remember we’d be up on Capitol Hill in recent decades covering him when he was chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations committee. Now he’s been focused on Ukraine, focused on the Middle East.

Congressman Clyburn was questioned about the demonstrations happening at Democratic events regarding the Biden administration’s backing of Israel during their conflict with Gaza.

What are the views of the Biden administration and your sources within the Biden camp regarding foreign policy, particularly the current situation in Israel, as they work to unite their alliances?

AMIE PARNES: Currently, the main issue and inquiry at hand is how to navigate this delicate situation. The political party must satisfy their supporters while also addressing their dissatisfaction. We are witnessing a gradual shift in their stance towards Israel. However, it is likely that there will need to be further communication and explanation to the public regarding the ongoing events.

I do not believe that this election will primarily focus on foreign policy, Bob. It’s not like the 2004 election. Instead, I predict that the economy, along with issues such as immigration and abortion, will play a major role. The state of the economy will greatly influence voters and their decisions. There is also the concern of apathy, as individuals may feel that neither side truly understands them and may choose to not vote or support a third party. This should be a concern for Democrats at this time.

Amie, the White House is closely monitoring the independent bids of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Cornell West, correct?

The concern is genuine as they reflect on the events of 2016 when Jill Stein’s actions negatively impacted Hillary Clinton’s campaign. The worry is justified because the issue of indifference may significantly impact this election. The candidates are well-known and their positions are already established. It is uncertain if the polls will shift significantly.

ROBERT COSTA: And, Doug, finally, I was on the streets of New York this week, not walking around, I was covering former President Trump and his legal challenges in Manhattan.

As a historian, take a step back and consider the current situation. In March, Trump could potentially face a criminal trial for hush money and be required to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in a civil fraud case. Additionally, there are two upcoming federal trials and the situation in Georgia. This is unprecedented.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY: I know.

ROBERT COSTA: I know unprecedented seems like we use that word all the time, but, really, we have not seen anything like it.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY: We have not. It makes, you know, Spiro Agnew’s little bribery thing look quaint in retrospect, you know? Nixon’s guys hauled him in. And Ehrlichman and Dean going – doing a little jail time over a bungled third rate burglary look quaint. This is somebody, Donald Trump, who’s been a predatory capitalist getting money from wherever he can and making up products, elevating his own self-worth.

What does this bring to mind? It is similar to the American tradition of glorifying gangsters and criminals. When you visit Chicago, you are more likely to hear stories about Al Capone and Dillinger rather than the great politicians of that time. Similarly, in the Western part of the country, there is a focus on outlaws like Billy the Kid. In a way, he was an unconventional president in our country, and many people in the country admire that.

Robert Costa: Trump has denied any wrongdoing in all of those cases.

We are grateful to Douglas Brinkley and Amie Parnes.

We will return shortly.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

A gathering in Kansas City last week intended to commemorate the Chiefs’ victory in the Super Bowl turned tragic as a sudden shooting resulted in one fatality and nearly twenty injuries.

Mark Strassmann, one of our reporters, has additional information.

(BEGIN VT)

Reworded: The Super Bowl festivities in Kansas City were disrupted by gunshots, causing chaos and fear. This tragic event once again highlights a disturbing trend in America.

Person: I was experiencing a lot of tears.

MARK STRASSMANN: Yes.

MAN: Yes.

MARK STRASSMANN: You must have been extremely frightened.

I was extremely scared and traumatized.

There are no safe places from the current issue of gun violence, as seen in the events at a Houston megachurch where a woman entered and began shooting with an AR-15. The woman was ultimately killed by off-duty police officers after a chase and exchange of gunfire.

MAN: It’s frightening. Yes, it’s quite scary.

Every day, an average of 325 people in America are shot. In the past year, there were 656 mass shootings, which means four or more victims were involved.

I felt much safer while traveling the world than I do in my own city.

We are on edge. Each instance of gun violence adds to our existing stress.

According to ARTHUR EVANS JR. (Ph.D., CEO and Executive Vice President of The American Psychological Association), individuals are facing vicarious trauma.

Dr. Arthur Evans, the CEO of the American Psychological Association, as voiced by MARK STRASSMANN.

MARK STRASSMANN: How important is this pressure?

Approximately 33% of individuals in the nation report altering their actions due to mass shootings.

According to Mark Strassmann’s voiceover, 75% of Americans experience significant stress following mass shootings. Evans also notes that parents of young children are particularly worried about the safety of their kids.

Arthur Evans Jr.: The presence of churches, synagogues, and shopping malls makes it harder for us to maintain distance, which has a different effect on us.

According to Gallup, a majority of 56 percent support increased restrictions on guns, a highly divisive topic.

I am a person who owns a firearm. It is important to make it more difficult for specific individuals to acquire a gun.

MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): Owning guns makes millions of Americans feel more in control. But with gun violence, anxiety climbs because people feel they’ve lost control.

Person: Why was I not shot? I am unsure.

MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): Guns in crowds have become a new American anxiety. Kansas City, a reminder of Denver’s NBA championship parade last year when two people were shot.

Michael Malone, head coach of the Denver Nuggets, expressed his frustration with the ease of access to guns and assault rifles that allow individuals to commit acts of violence. He questioned how many more lives must be lost before action is taken to address this issue.

(END VT)

ROBERT COSTA: We will return shortly.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

Unfortunately, our time has come to an end. Thank you for tuning in. Margaret will return next week. This concludes FACE THE NATION, I am Robert Costa.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

Source: cbsnews.com